CNN - Larry King Live
April 24, 2008

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Larry King: We welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE from her office at the Capitol of the United States, the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Good seeing you again. Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Speaker of the House: Wonderful to see you.

Larry King: You have your own flag, huh?

Speaker Pelosi: Yes. The Speaker has a flag. I didn't know that until I became Speaker.

Larry King: The Speaker has a flag. You've made it.

Speaker Pelosi: That is it.

Larry King: Now, let's first discuss some politics.

The Clinton-Obama thing, out of hand? Going to hurt the party?

Speaker Pelosi: I am so excited about both of them. I think we have two great candidates, any one of -- either one of them would make a great president of the United States. And I'm certain that will be the case. But I saw an interesting survey today which said that, say a month ago, before the campaign in Pennsylvania got really heated, that either one of them was about even with John McCain. And now today the poll said that Hillary Clinton was up seven percent and Barack Obama was up eight percent, approximately.

Larry King: Over McCain.

Speaker Pelosi: Over McCain. So the campaigning, the intense campaigning in the state -- according to at least this survey today -- would indicate that the more people got to know them, the stronger they got in the general election.

Larry King: But do you think that the McCain campaign will be able to run ads -- no matter who the nominee is -- just from the primary battle, that will hurt them?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, that's the -- that's sort of an old way of thinking for the McCain campaign if they want to go that way. What this race is about is about the future. It's about taking our -- really taking our country into this century, whether it's the creation of jobs through innovation, whether it's protecting our planet like with green technologies, whether it's rebuilding the infrastructure of America in a way that is green and whether it's about how -- whether it's how we can protect the American people. It's about issues. It's not about tactics.

Larry King: So you don't think the intensity will work against one or the other?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, that's what campaigns are. It does get intense and people get emotionally involved in its supporters. But I know that one of these candidates will be the next president of the United States and the other one will emerge as a great leader in our country.

Larry King: Have you thought about endorsing?

Speaker Pelosi: I'm the chair of the convention. And, as such, I think it's important to remain neutral. And, again, as speaker of the House, as well, I have many members who are still undeclared. And I want them to make their own decisions about the race.

Larry King: So you will have the gavel?

Speaker Pelosi: I'll have the gavel.

Larry King: Your chairman, Howard Dean, chairman of the party, said the superdelegates, everything has to be done by mid-June. Do you agree?

Speaker Pelosi: I think it would be constructive...

Larry King: You don't want a brokered convention?

Speaker Pelosi: I don't want a brokered convention. I think there's too short a time -- maybe just about eight weeks between the end of the convention and the election. And I don't think that's enough time to bring everyone together. I do think that the campaigns have to work their way through this, that we should have all the elections, let the people speak and then we'll find out who our nominee is.

Larry King: They did it some years back when Kennedy and Johnson were on the same ticket after a strong battle.

Speaker Pelosi: You're saying...

Larry King: If you had your power, would you want them to run together?

Speaker Pelosi: No.

Larry King: No?

Speaker Pelosi: I don't think it's a good idea.

Larry King: Not a good idea?

Speaker Pelosi: No, I don't think so.

Larry King: Because?

Speaker Pelosi: I think that, first of all, the candidates -- whoever he or she may be -- should choose his or her own vice presidential candidate. I think that's appropriate. That's where you would see the comfort level on not only how to run, but how to govern the country. And there's plenty of talent to go around to draw upon for a good strong ticket. I'm not one of those who thinks that that's a good ticket.

Larry King: Really?

Speaker Pelosi: Really.

Larry King: There's too much animosity?

Speaker Pelosi: No, I just think that -- well, let's put it this way, if they think that it's a good ticket, maybe it is. But I don't think that we should thrust the vice presidential choice onto the presidential nominee. That's her or his decision to make.

Larry King: What kind of an opponent do you think Senator McCain will be?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I see Senator McCain as a continuation of the policies of George W. Bush -- a war without end, which has plunged us into -- deeply into debt, which is taking us into recession. Senator McCain and President Bush have the same ideas about tax cuts for the wealthiest, giving us this big deficit. And you see what has happened to the economy. And I think McCain will be and McBush. It will just be a third term of George. W. Bush.

Larry King: McBush?

Speaker Pelosi: McBush.

Larry King: All right. But you became the majority -- your party became the majority in the House primarily pledging to end the war. That didn't happen.

Speaker Pelosi: No.

Larry King: Why didn't it happen?

Speaker Pelosi: It didn't happen because we had hoped that the president would listen to the will of the people and at least be willing to compromise on some -- on how the war is conducted and some timetable for the redeployment of our troops -- a responsible, honorable and safe redeployment of our troops out of Iraq in a way that brought stability to the region and more safety to the United States; that the president would realize that the real war on terrorism is in Afghanistan and this war in Iraq has taken the focus away from that; that this war in Iraq has not only cost us over 4,000 lives, enormous trillions of dollars and our reputation in the world, but has seriously undermined the capability of our troops to protect our interests wherever they are threatened again (INAUDIBLE)...

Larry King: So you needed the president...

Speaker Pelosi: We needed the president or we needed...

Larry King: ... to play along, to cooperate.

Speaker Pelosi: Well, we thought we could have some compromises and/or that the Republicans in Congress, who had been trying to distance themselves a bit from the president's policy, then embraced it fully after the election because that was what -- they had been a rubber stamp Congress for the president. So, sadly, we were not able to do that. And, sadly, not being able to end the war has eclipsed many of the accomplishments we have had in this Congress, of which I'm very proud. And they were bipartisan.

Larry King: Will you say unequivocally that if one of the two -- one of your two candidates from your party wins, you will end this war?

Speaker Pelosi: I believe that would be the case, yes. And I think the public would be expecting that. And it would be again, a safe, honorable and responsible redeployment out of Iraq with the focus on fighting the real war on terrorism.

Larry King: How big a plurality in the House for you next year?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I -- here's what I have in mind. I have in mind a secure, strengthened Democratic majority in the House so we can move forward with our initiatives to create jobs...

Larry King: What's your plurality now?

Speaker Pelosi: We have -- 435 people in the Congress, we have 234 of those. There are two seats that are not filled -- two Republican seats. And we're contending for those seats right now. So...

Larry King: So you're saying you're going to increase it?

Speaker Pelosi: We're going to increase it.

Larry King: I want to get this right. In a 2006 press release, you declared: "Democrats have a common sense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices." Gasoline now, it keeps going up proportionately.

Speaker Pelosi: Right.

Larry King: This is a record high in the history of gasoline.

What happened?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, it's almost three times what it was when President Bush took office. It was $1 something when he took office. Now it's $2.56 on average, but it's higher in California.

Larry King: Now, I think, $3.50, they're saying now.

Speaker Pelosi: Three dollars and fifty cents. Oh, down six cents. Well, it's where I'm from in California, sad to say. And what we have tried to say to the president, also, is there is a way -- and we have to think short-term and long-term on it today.

I called for the president to not increase the oil in the strategic petroleum reserve. That's a reserve in case we need it for our defense purposes. The president has done this before. In fact, he's released oil from this SPRO is what we call it, the SPRO. At the time of Katrina, he released oil from it.

We're not saying that. We're just saying don't put any more oil in. Let that go onto the market, increasing supply, lowering costs. It could bring down the cost of a gallon of gasoline from five cents to 25 cents, depending on the expert that you believe, but it goes in that direction.

We've asked the president again and again to join us in fighting price gouging, market manipulation, cartel activities of OPEC, which are harmful to the marketplace.

Larry King: So you blame it all on him?

Speaker Pelosi: I'm not blaming it on him. I'm just saying that this has to be -- there has to be a plan. The president has not had a plan. And it isn't -- again, you can't do something that will bring them down tomorrow except the SPRO would, a bit. But you have to have a long- term plan.

And this is what we have, which is our -- a new energy policy which reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's a national security issue. It's an economic issue for us. It's an environmental issue. And it is, if you believe as I do, that this is God's creation, it is a moral issue to pass this planet on to the next generation intact.

And -- and the president has resisted that kind of an economic policy -- energy policy. He's just talked about more drilling in the ANWR in Alaska. And that is not a plan to do that. But we have to do it.

And, again, no matter how much of a margin we would have in the House and the Senate, and even if we had the White House, it requires bipartisan cooperation, working together. Because we're working against cartel interests internationally who are manipulating the price of oil.

Larry King: So you have to be combined here?

Speaker Pelosi: I believe so.

Larry King: Yes We'll be right back right after this. (END VIDEOTAPE) (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Larry King: We're back with the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. The new war-funding bill, Bush says he wants 108 billion. He says he'll veto anything higher. I want to get this right. A lot of Democrats want to add on funds for unemployment, education, infrastructure, et cetera.

How are you going to resolve this? He won't sign it if you do that.

Speaker Pelosi: Well, let's hope that we can work this out so that the president will get a bill that he can sign. But we don't have to have all of those things in this -- in this bill.

I do think, though, that we should do something very magnificent about infrastructure. Two hundred years ago, Larry, 200 years ago President Jefferson tasked his secretary of the treasury to build an infrastructure plan for America, to follow the Wharton (ph) and Clark expedition and the Louisiana Purchase, the Cumberland Road, the Erie Canal, things like that.

A hundred years later, Teddy Roosevelt in the White House did a similar thing on the anniversary. And he instituted the National Park Service to preserve the green infrastructure of America.

Another hundred years later, we want to do something with that kind of vision to rebuild America. And that's what we would hope we can work with the president to do. But it doesn't have to be in that bill.

Larry King: So you're not going to have a fight over this?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I hope not. I mean, there's certain things that are emergencies that the president, the administration has told us there is a need. And perhaps we can have some of that in the bill. And I do think the worsening economy might call for unemployment insurance for people who have lost their jobs. But we can work that out.

Larry King: But you are voting for war funding?

Speaker Pelosi: I won't be voting for war funding.

Larry King: The bill is --

Speaker Pelosi: I haven't voted for war funding. But, in the event, there will be some who will vote for war funding, yes. I mean, I have voted for it on the condition that the funds be used to wind down the war and bring our troops home. Perhaps I will have an opportunity to do something like that.

But we haven't finalized the supplemental bill. The chairmen of the committees are working together, House and Senate. And hopefully, we can have a bipartisan bill that the president will sign. We always try to start there. Where can we find our common ground?

Larry King: You assume he starts there, too?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I hope so. I have to -- I hope that.

Larry King: What's it like to work with the president?

Speaker Pelosi: The president and I have a fine relationship, I think.

Larry King: You like him?

Speaker Pelosi: Personally, yes. It's not -- it's not anything personal. I just don't like his policies. I think that he's taken us into war and that he's taken us into debt, that he's taken us into recession that lost us life, reputation and dollars, ability -- capability of our military to protect America's interest wherever they're sent. It's huge.

I think missed opportunity on energy independence and reversing global warming, missed opportunity -- there's so much we could have done. But it's just a matter of months, and we'll be able to do it.

Larry King: My late friend, Tip O'Neill, told me he argued frequently with President Reagan but never with animosity.

Speaker Pelosi: No.

Larry King: Do you argue?

Speaker Pelosi: Yes, but I think he understands, as do I, he has to do what he has to do, and I have to do what I have to do. And I have to try to find common ground and then stand my ground, the ground for the Congress when we don't find that.

But the president was here yesterday. We gave the Congressional Gold Medal to Michael DeBakey. Can you just imagine? Ninety-nine years old?

Larry King: Amazing.

Speaker Pelosi: And we had a very amiable conversation. Now, it's not personal. And you know the president is -- is not that kind of a person. He's not a bitter kind of a person. So -- and I certainly respect our differences of opinion. But I have very serious differences of opinion with the president.

Larry King: You met with the Dalai Lama. You urged the president to, what, skip -- not go to the opening of the Olympics?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I've said to the president to reserve judgment on that. Let's see if we could see if the Chinese government would do something to negotiate with the Dalai Lama.

That would be very important to do, and I think some testimony from the administration is leaning in the direction of encouraging that negotiation. But I don't know what the president's plans will be.

If the president goes to the opening ceremony and at some time in his conversations with the Chinese government, I hope he talks to them about the enormous trade deficit that we have with China, $750 billion each year, about human rights violations in China.

It's about those kinds of issues. It's about helping us to end the genocide in Darfur, where the Chinese could be helpful with the Sudanese government. There's a whole list of things --

Larry King: You don't expect the Chinese to change on the Dalai Lama, do you?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I'm always hopeful. I would hope, because the Dalai Lama -- the way the Chinese characterize the Dalai Lama's position is to say for independence. He hasn't been for at least 21 years that I have known him and worked with him. He's always been for autonomy within China.

So I think, if they could take a clear look at what his holiness is saying, that they could find some common ground. I would hope so, because otherwise a whole culture, a whole Tibetan culture will be destroyed.

Larry King: We'll be right back with Speaker Pelosi right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Larry King: We're back with the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi.

Where are you on this Colombia trade agreement?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, I have said to the president that I will determine the timetable in which it comes to the floor of the House and that we should continue our conversations and perhaps find a way to bring it to the floor.

Larry King: Are you holding it up?

Speaker Pelosi: No, we're not holding it up. The president wanted it on his timetable. And as speaker of the House --

Larry King: Want it on yours?

Speaker Pelosi: -- want it on mine.

Larry King: And you win this one, right?

Speaker Pelosi: Well, again, I don't put myself in a place that says, "No, never," to the Colombia free trade agreement. I think that there could be a way that -- I've said to the president: We must address the economic concerns of America's working families, and then we can have a trade agreement.

And that means we have to have an initiative for job creation, that gives them some economic security.

Larry King: So reports that you want it killed are not true, not true?

Speaker Pelosi: Not true.

Larry King: A couple of other things. What about this job -- now, you've been on it two years, right?

Speaker Pelosi: Yes.

Larry King: -- surprises --

Speaker Pelosi: About 15 months.

Larry King: -- surprises you?



Speaker Pelosi: What about it surprises me? I rarely use the word "surprise" in politics, because you're always thinking what the possibilities could be. You're always watching motivation and you're studying people.

If I would say anything that I wish were different it would have been that we could have found some common ground with the president on the war, that the Republicans who are up for re-election are facing a public that 63 percent of whom say it wasn't worth it, not only do they oppose it, it wasn't worth it.

At the height of the opposition to the war in Vietnam, it was 61 percent, if that gives you any indication. And the fact that the Republicans just are sticking with the president with the failed policy in Iraq is, I think, if not surprising, enormously disappointing.

Larry King: But nothing about the job has surprised you --

Speaker Pelosi: No --

Larry King: -- the working?

Speaker Pelosi: The one thing about it is -- let me first say what a great honor to be the speaker of the House and what a great honor to be the first woman speaker of the House and, I might add, first Italian-American speaker of the House. It's absolutely great. And I congratulate my colleagues for having the courage to honor the legacy and hope of our country, which is equal opportunity.

The fact is your time is not your own. You know, you think you're going to do these things, and every intervention you can imagine comes up. Working on the farm bill today or the intelligence bill, things come up that you just have to stop everything and address. It's pretty exciting, though. I don't see that as a complaint. I just say it as an observation.

Larry King: You mention Iraq. I guess the most famous anti-war activist, Cindy Sheehan, is going to run against you.

Speaker Pelosi: Yes, she certainly is.

Larry King: In the Democratic primary?

Speaker Pelosi: No, as an independent.

Larry King: She's running as an independent. Would you debate her? How do you view that?

Speaker Pelosi: Well -- (CROSSTALK)

Larry King: I guess you share her views, don't you?

Speaker Pelosi: Yes, well, God bless her. And I think it's a reflection of the dissatisfaction that people have that we have not been able to end the war. But we were hoping that the president would pay more attention to the wishes of the American people, not turn a tin ear to them and a blind eye to what's actually happening in Iraq, but God bless her for her advocacy. Cindy Sheehan lost her son in Iraq. And so she has all of my sympathy, respect for her sacrifice that her family has made.

Larry King: Are you surprised she picked you to run against?

Speaker Pelosi: I don't even think about it much. You know, I have a day job. We're here trying to --

Larry King: OK.

Speaker Pelosi: You know, we just passed working with the president, our stimulus package, and May 2, the stimulus checks will start to go out. We're working on it --

Larry King: Six hundred dollars or $1,200, depending on --

Speaker Pelosi: Depending, an average of $800, but 150 million families, starting May 1 and going on for a number of weeks, will be receiving these rebate checks. Millions of families who never received them before, families with children and the rest who didn't reach a certain --

Larry King: You do have a day job.

Speaker Pelosi: I do have a day job.

Larry King: Thank you.

Speaker Pelosi: And I love it.

Thank you, Larry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)